Ethical porn has been both a beacon of hope for many in the adult entertainment industry for years — and also a thorn in the side of the industry as a whole. With many consumers on the hunt for ethical smut, but no agreed-upon definition of what exactly “ethical porn” entails, both consumers and producers are left unfulfilled. And, with standards constantly shifting in both the larger culture and the minds of pornographers themselves, ethics in porn are an ever-moving target.

But, in a moment during which the adult industry is opening up to difficult conversations about racism in porn, seeing its long-time icon Ron Jeremy behind bars, and examining abuses of power on set, now is a good time to look at what mainstream media thinks of ethical porn.

Women’s website Bustle recently asked four experts in and around the adult industry for their input for an article titled “Here’s How You Can Tell If You’re Watching Ethical Porn.” It seems like an easy question to answer, but anyone familiar with the topic will tell you it’s fraught with nuance. And that’s exactly what the experts interviewed told Griffin Wynne, who wrote the article.

“According to Ayesha Hussain, a sex and porn coach, porn activist, and founder of The Violet, ethical porn is made in a sex-positive way with conscious business practices,” reported Wynne. These practices include doing away with gender stereotypes, hiring more diverse performers, showing consent in the final edit, extending visible pleasure to everyone involved, providing a safe work environment, allowing performers to choose their partners, and paying everyone well. Nothing surprising there, but in an interesting twist, Hussain told Bustle that these ethical practices “creates safety and a sense of intimacy that can be felt off-screen.”

But Lola Jean, a mental health professional and sex educator, countered that claim. “There’s no way of knowing if something was ‘ethically made,’” she said. “It’s not like someone is sitting there, making sure they went by the ethical standards.”

Jean also cautioned that just because something looks soft and safe doesn’t make it more ethical than something more hardcore. “People can have healthy, consensual, aggressive sex,” she told Bustle. And it’s an important point—sometimes aggressive sex is exactly what performers and consumers want, and that can make it just as ethical as any other kind of sex. 

“It just shouldn’t be that we only see abusive porn, or only seeing women being submissive, or only seeing the person with a penis ejaculating—it’s the variety,” she continued. “We need more things available.”

But Jean was careful not to put the onus entirely on producers for that variety, clarifying that porn companies supply what consumers demand. It’s on consumers to provide the right incentives for ethical porn production. As a consumer, she said, “If you’re only seeing the same types of bodies over and over again, and only seeing them behave the same way—then that starts to be what we expect, it starts to be what we’re into.” To break what she called the “feedback loop” of search engine optimization, she said, “It’s important to expose yourself to various bodies, to a variety of races, sexual identities, to change things up, and learn new things.”

Danielle Blunt, an independent porn producer and femdom dominatrix, backed up Jean’s focus on consumers. “All labor under capitalism is vulnerable to exploitation,” she said. “But we can do our best to be ethical consumers” by paying for porn, tipping performers, and supporting sex education. 

Jean also pointed out how the word “ethical” can be overused in conscientious circles. “After a while, it starts to lose its meaning,” she said, and most in the porn industry can agree. 

Hussain, Jean, Blunt, and Rev. Rucifer, founder of Reikie Bondage, all told Bustle “that establishing certain porn as ‘ethical’ or ‘responsible’ creates an unfair dichotomy within porn. In other words, when some porn is deemed ‘ethical’ or ‘good,’ it means other porn is considered ‘unethical’ or ‘bad’ by default. This can create further divides within the porn world—an industry that’s already largely misunderstood and misrepresented.”

The answers about ethical porn that Bustle provided were, as you can see, complicated. Not as cut-and-dry as the article’s title would imply. Still, it’s an interesting snapshot into what those close to the industry—and the folks at Bustle—think readers should be looking for from their porn right now, when the pandemic has lots of people relying heavily on porn for their sexual kicks.